Research

Spiritual enlightenment and imorality
-- discovering Ma'at is all

Outer Harmony (peace w/nature)
Inner Harmony (Fuffilment)
Mental Balance (equanimity)
Expansion of the Heart through Selfless Service to Humanity
Sublimation of the Ego
Self control, sex sublimation and non violence
Livin in accordance w/ma'at

n which Radha/Nefret mentions "Whial in chat, after reading
my profile someone asked me what Hinduism, samurai and Khmt/ Kmt/…"

I will address just the Hinduism and samurai aspect.

Rarely, did cultures exist in complete isolation.

Even during the period of isolation of Japan during the Tokugawa
Shogunate, Japan was still engaged in controlled trade with China
and the Dutch. The trade also kept a steady stream of books coming
into Japan and thus the intellectuals of Japan were not too bored.

Going farther back in time before Japan was "closed", again a
relative term, Japan's ancient history was deeply influenced by
Korea. From Korea, Japan gained Buddhism and with it "Hinduism"
(Hindu is a modern term). It was Korean ambassadors to Japan and
scholars who first brought the Indian belief system to Japan.
Buddhism, Hinduism and Indian culture (also martial arts) ofcourse
entered via the famed silk road. Japanese Buddhist monks however
did not always take the land route to India, they traveled the seas
and visited Vietnam, Java, even Southern Thailand. The Japanese
monks even met Chinese monks heading to India! Thus, cultural
interaction occurred often and travel, although hard, never stopped.

In other words, people new to the field of spirituality may not
right away realize that India was the ANCIENT SUPER POWER alongside
China. When we say "the west" today we think of the Europe and the
USA as the source of modernity. The "west" for Asia was India the
cradle of spirituality and not to mention technology of the ancients.

Japan, via travelers and scholars was "Sanskritized" like the rest
of East and Southeast Asia. In Chinese art, heavenly women (angelic
beings) who are part of the art where flowing clothes and have red
dots on their forehead---the art is entirely a "Chinese version" of
the same imagery from India. What we know of Shaolin martial arts
is similar to yogic based self-defense even down to specific
postures/stances. Some general examples I can easily recall from
memory:

Very old samurai swords even contain Sanskrit on them (the Sanskrit
orthography for Japan is not exactly the same as that seen in India--
-but it is Sanskrit)

Various "native" gods of Japan are in fact imported Hindu gods who
were made Japanese over time. "Benten Daiba" is actually
Sarasvati. The Gion festival of Kyoto when many Geisha show their
refined arts is actually Hindu in origin. This article below
actually discusses the details.

The Gion Shrine and the Gion Festival
Helen B. Chapin
Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 54, No. 3 (Sep.,
1934), pp. 282-289
doi:10.2307/594168

When people say "Zen" you think of Japanese gardens and meditation.
Zen is really "Cha'an" from China which was founded by Bodhidharma,
and Indian monk. Over time Zen was viewed as being very "Japanese"
but like all things there is synthesis and influence. It is
impossible to say that one culture actually "owns" something as the
ancient world was full of fascinating interaction.

Now for samurai. "Bushido" evolved over time and no one text, not
even the Book of Five Rings by Musashi, held constant imminence.
Even Bushido after 1868 was completely "reformulated" what
westerners perceive of as the code of honor is actually a 19th
century creation for the Imperial Army and not as ancient as we
think. The mysterious origins of Bushido can be found under the
Kshatriya ideals/codes which were detailed in various places in the
work Mahabharta (and it's important Bhagadgita "Song of God"). The
term "Kshatriya" is the kingly/warrior "class" however in the
Mahabharata the kings and nobles were more inclined to be fierce and
had martial prowess. It is not simply a "theory" that Japan's
samurai were influenced by the Mahabharata, it is actually a fact
well researched by scholars. However, what is lacking is the
Japanese version of the Hindu religious text/epic. Thus, it is
possible that these ideals from the Mahabharata were mixed in with
Buddhism (not strange) and that is how the Japanese gained these
tenets of conduct.

Thanks for reading.


this is found on page 41
of The heart of Prajnaparameta Sutra
with verses without a stand and prose commentary

venerable Tripitaka Master Hsuan Hua
English Translation by the buddhist Text Translations Society
copyrite 2002

"How do you give rise to afflictions? By being stupid. You misunderstand situations and so are afflicted."

Why do you become afflicted? Thoughts of contempt, of arogance and condescension generate afflictions."

"Why are you still afflicted right nonw? Because you have deviant views and see situations incorrectly. If no matter what is happening, you have
proper knowledge, proper views, and genuine wisdome, you will see very,
very clearly and will understand completelly. When clarity and
understanding appear in the midst of circumstances, then there is no
affliction. It is the deviant views of greed, hatred, stupidity,
arrogance and doupt that produce the affliction-obsticle."

all of these 'simalaraty' posts first appeared on the esangha forum.

Many people ask me what Buddhism and Kmt spiritual practices have in common.
(kmt is an ancient Egyptian word meaning 'the black land' and is used to refer to the people and the country.)

That is what this and my further posts will be in regards to. If I miss the
mark, meaning that my understanding of Buddhism (in general.. although
I do lean toward Zen teachings) please let me know.. it will help
greatly.

Rt now I'm embarking on a 20 book reading list, this is where I start. With The Temple In Man written by Renee Schwaller de
lubicz in which he states :

"... the universe exists for us only through our consciousness and our particular intellectual
faculties, nothing, in truth, opposes the admission of the 'extreme
formula."" With this way of seeing, all rational science collapses, all
scientific thought is precluded."

there is some left in because it reminds me of the purpose of the koan... to suspend
'rational' thought ... going beyond in your thinking and meditations...
or to quote "a Koan is seems pointless or incomprehensible, ... is
actually an invitation to think in a new way, a tool to startle the
consciousness into enlightenment...."


Do Not eat your heart
Do Not harbor enemies/ Isfet.

The first taken from several versions of the Negitive Confession or The 42
Tenants of Ma'at. This simply means not to be over come with negitive
emotions. Not harboring enemies comes from wisdom text and I think its
Ptah Hotep or Anqeshonk or Amenemope, Im not sure... it is also in some
variations of the Negative Confession as well...meaning don't stay mad
at some one ... again dealing with carrying that kind of stuff with
you.....

The first thing that comes to mind for me is a story (can be found in zen flesh, zen bones)

There were two monks traveling. A pon comming to a river they saw a woman, so
the elder monk carried her across on his back. A day or so later, the
younger brings it up.
Since they were supposed to avoid women, why then did the elder carry that woman across the river?

The elder monk's reply was that He had left that woman back at the river, why was the younger monk still carrying her?

I think this is a very good example of not carrying 'things' with you
such as negitive emotions ...to harbor or dwell on 'things' or to
become fixated, will hamper your spiritual development and may even be
a corrupting influence.

If anyone has anything to add, I certainly welcome it.

what about all those gods? I mean how can you 'worship' all those gods and still be Buddhist is another question I get..."doesn't it
conflict?" or "how does that work?" Since this comes up regularly I
figured I will address this here, instead of in my blog. First we will
cover Symbolism and I will define Ntr ... wich is usually and most
expediently translated to mean "God"

(this is coming from a book called The Temple In Man by R.A. Schwaller de Lubicz)

The kmt (ancient egyptian) term for symbol is Medu Neter/Metu Neter...Mdu
Ntr....which is translated as hieroglyphs. "Principles Conveyed by
sign" (or signs that bear Ntr)



"wisdom can not vary if it is real."
(so here we see that ... even if the symbols /words we use differ... the 'concept' is the same...

Ntr (neter / nedjer/ netjer) Is a divine/cosmic or natural principle ( or
force)/ spirit. It is like an entire teaching rolled into one symbol....

(for those of you to whom this is not an obvious conclusion...Im considering koans again)

"the pharaonic mentality is typically indirect. A defined form is used to
evoke an idea of this form -that is to say, the abstract complex that
presides over this defined form."

and one more tidbit I found connected with buddhism in general

" We become aware -that is to say, we can qualify a thing or an idea -
only by means of comparison. The extreme comparison for Being would be
Non Being . For us a thing exists only because it can, the final
analysis, not be. Now, presence is susceptible to changes; but absence
-nonbeing --is immutable.

the reasoning of absurdity however, underlies any philosophy of Unity -- that is to say "god'. With in
Non-Being of Nature, which comprises all 'things' is summarized like a
seed.... everything that can be.


Nothing is everything
and what we perceive is our own illusion as physically manifest (via our perception)

I just finished esoterism and symbol and here is the culmination of that which I feel is applicable to the topic.

All emotional reactions are based on egoism, the first cerebral consciousness of oneself, a mirror of the object,

But only man has in him that gift allowing him to free himself from all
these reactions; to attain aristocratic liberty by fusing with the
WHOLE -love without cause, without aim, with out reward and therefor
with out deception.


similarities between religions are not uncommon..

qualities like compassion, dealing with the nature of mind, and so forth.

what makes Buddhism different from the rest, is the concept of Four Seals or
Three Universal Characteristics, and taking refuge in Triple Gem. --- a
comment left in response
*



I never had any problems with accepting the tripplel jems... as I think I mentioned in my blog.. or elsewhere ...kmt-ism is all inclusive so
taking refuge in the tripple gems was never an issue or a problem...
the four seals is a mirror/reflection of the mystery teachings (Im sure
I dont have to go into the def of 'mystery teaching' but just in case
some one else is reading it... all that means is that its presented in
a way to eather promote further understanding or for those students who
have attained enough to understand...I can post about it if there is
any confusion regarding it)

Of course a true kemite is compassionate...not being so is direct violation to not only the
teachigns but to the 'self' (aka you, me the universe...) all of those
things.. you could just superimpose them really....


his reminds me of desire being the orrigin of suffering. Of course buddhims and kmt -ism use differant literary devices to convy the same
sentiments, I found this teaching to be very interesting.

"Is then the animal a model for man?"
"Every animal is the summing up of a character which is perfection of its
kind, because it does not dissimulate what we call the defects; it is
what it seems to be. If you observe each species, you will find there
some aspect of the passions which are the driving force of our own
life."
"...the animal does not think as men do; can it then experience our desires, our sorrows, our jealousy?"
"All the urges of the passion express vital natural impulses, and it is the
animal in us which gives rise to them. The wise man is conscious of
them, he knows how to give them thier true name and to make use of them
as you direct your donkey. But the wise man is rare, and egoism finds a
thousand reasons for giving those impulses legitimate motives and
flattering names. The human passions are life-impulses which have been
perverted... and so skilfully perverted that it is very difficult to
discover, beneither their complications, the almost diving power wich
is thier source. ... Hence I do not say all this for 'serious' people,
but for the child Her-Bak, who would know how to observe, with out
criticism or judment, the impulses of passion within the animals ...
and how to find thier eqivilationts in himself."
"Are then the animals forced to obey the lust to eat one another?"
"They are forced to obey the demands of hunger. Thier instinctive nature
makes them look for the food that suits thier organism. You your self
sometimes feed on meat and fish.... But man perverts this vital impulse
by overshooting its mark: necessity gives an excuse for gluttony, and
for the hunter an opportunity to exert his cruelty."
"when a man and a catkill birds to eat them, is the man more guilty than the cat?"
"Man or beast, whoever kills becomes thereby subject to the law of Asar,*
which is a merceless pendulum and always acts reciprocally. Kill and
eat if you want, but know what you are doing; seek no excuse and accept
the consequences: that is the only way for man to attain little by
little to higher consciousness."
"who will give me the courage?"
"Disgust with your impotence, desire to break the chains fo this animality."

*Asar/Ausar/ Wsr = principle of perpetual return to existance.


from
Her-Bak
The Living Face of Ancient Egypt
Isha Schwaller DeLubicz

[what makes Buddhism different from the rest, is the concept of Four Seals or Three Universal Characteristics, and taking refuge in Triple
Gem.] -quoting someone
*



Actually, in the Esoteric understanding of almost all Religions; the Four Seals, and the Tri-Unity(The Three Jewels: whether Outer, Inner, or Secret)
are all taught; albeit explained and/or symbolized a little differently.

In the Khemetian teachings, there is AMEN, RA, PTAH for example, which on
one level could be synonymous with the Dharmakaya, Samboghakaya, and
Nirmanakaya.

The Khemetians also understood that all compounded phenomena are impermanent, that everything defiled (with ego-clinging)
is suffering, that all phenomena are empty and devoid of a self-entity,
and that nirvana is perfect peace.


And by the Three Universal Characteristics, I'll assume that you're referring to: --
The three natures or three aspects of experience are:

The imaginary nature (Skt. parikalita, Tib. kun rtag), the dependent nature
(Skt. paratantra, Tib. gzhan dbang) and the truly existent nature (Skt.
parinispanna, Tib. yongs grub).


Well, we know that the Hebrew Kabbalah is heavily based on the Khemetian Paut
Neter(which is even admitted in the Torah), and that Vedic-Brahminism
is based on the very Ancient pre-Shakyamuni Tantric Buddhism/Yungdrung
Bon.


So let us look at Paranishpanna/Parinispanna in relation to the AIN SOPH of Kabbalah:


QUOTE(Samael Aun Weor)
Ain Soph Paranishpanna

"We must make a specific differentiation between the Ain Soph and the Ain Soph Paranishpanna: In the Ain Soph, interior Self-realization does not
exist, but in the Ain Soph Paranishpanna, interior Self-realization
does exist." - Tarot and Kabbalah



Here^^^ "Self", in the sense of "Self Liberation"



These connections are worth reflecting on.

---- this whole thing was a post of someone elses... they start bichering

At this moment Im feeling utterly rediculuse. Some one was, like usuall asking me if I think Kmt influenced buddhism and of course Im taking
this to mean in a proactive way so I continue to blunder through my
thoughts in an attempt to answer this.

They traded w/the asiatics since oh I dunno predynastic times? I don't have the exact
years to give you but think about that for a minut.... the Kmts were
all over silk road trading ... Im sure there was ya know....
conversation going on.... Could this have influenced buddhism... oh
sure why not????

Insted of being logical, I went the rout of some of our myths. Wsr left the Kingdome of Kmt and traveled the world
(such as it was) in order to teach. Was Wsr a REAL Nswbit? *shrug* It
is said he ruled after the gods left. So you have 'the rule of the Ntr'
and then you have what some archiologists term as the 'rule of the demi
gods' (makes NO sence to me but ok) Wsr/Ausar or Osirus if you prefer
greek names, is said to be an actual person type Nswbt, he could have
been elevated to 'official' Ntr just like Imhotep. Of course as far as
I know these are just legends and I have NO archiological proof to back
this up.

Another point I braught up whial remaining oblivious as to the trade btwn kmt and china (as someone on asians finest forum so
kindly reminded me) I also hypothosised : well there were so many
invasions it was rediculous... so I can't imagine every person of Kmt
hanging about... Im sure some of them went to other countries and
chilled ya know? Im more than sure that included priests.

If the heiroglyphiscs found in austrailia and the grandcanion have not yet been disproven the above theory seems very likely.

Koans !
I like koans.
I can't studdy them rt now cause I have no 'teacher' (sob) but its ok
why is this odd woman blathering on about koans like this?

we all know what koans are rt? I consider them teaching devices, kinda
like a verbal/spychological zen fan to the face or head depending on
where it is needed to hellp w/that understanding problem on may have

(Im in a humored mood rt now)

I would have to say that Ntr and Koan opperate on the same principle.

since Im sure you all know what koans are then I know I dont have really go into boaring explination about that.

Of course Ntr are 'translated' as meaning 'god'

thanks budge.
Every thing in kmt is symbolic... even the Ntr are larger than life symbolic teachings.

I find this all very interesting and exciting.

[what makes Buddhism different from the rest, is the concept of Four Seals or Three Universal Characteristics, and taking refuge in Triple
Gem.
*



(Actually, in the Esoteric understanding of almost all Religions; the Four Seals, and the Tri-Unity(The Three Jewels: whether Outer, Inner, or Secret)
are all taught; albeit explained and/or symbolized a little differently.

In the Khemetian teachings, there is AMEN, RA, PTAH for example, which on
one level could be synonymous with the Dharmakaya, Samboghakaya, and
Nirmanakaya.

The Khemetians also understood that all compounded phenomena are impermanent, that everything defiled (with ego-clinging)
is suffering, that all phenomena are empty and devoid of a self-entity,
and that nirvana is perfect peace.


And by the Three Universal Characteristics, I'll assume that you're referring to:


QUOTE
The three natures or three aspects of experience are:

The imaginary nature (Skt. parikalita, Tib. kun rtag), the dependent nature (Skt. paratantra, Tib. gzhan dbang) and the truly existent nature (Skt.
parinispanna, Tib. yongs grub).



Well, we know that the Hebrew Kabbalah is heavily based on the Khemetian Paut Neter(which is even admitted in the Torah), and that Vedic-Brahminism
is based on the very Ancient pre-Shakyamuni Tantric Buddhism/Yungdrung
Bon.


So let us look at Paranishpanna/Parinispanna in relation to the AIN SOPH of Kabbalah:


QUOTE(Samael Aun Weor)
Ain Soph Paranishpanna

"We must make a specific differentiation between the Ain Soph and the Ain Soph Paranishpanna: In the Ain Soph, interior Self-realization does not
exist, but in the Ain Soph Paranishpanna, interior Self-realization
does exist." - Tarot and Kabbalah



Here^^^ "Self", in the sense of "Self Liberation"



These connections are worth reflecting on. ] -- someones reply
*





What A Lovely Reply !!! YAY (as you can see Im not always serious and stuffy)
thank you sooooo much for that !!!! WOW I learned something from it.... LOL .. even though I had to take a tedious six moth corse in the kmt
origins of the Quaballa I of course retain none of it (since Im not
really concerned w/it... sad Im sure but I don't really 'care' about
the Quabala)


Im not sure if anyone saw the posting on Her-Bak the other day but... I think that really sums up the three
universal characters... maybe Im the only one who sees it that way
though.


The only thing that threw me was certainly not through anything other than my perception. I have noticed certain
sects/traditions of buddhists like to separate things into all manner
of groupings and thingies which is nicely reflected in your reply
(thanks, now I don't have to provide a visual for what I'm talking
about)

and the kmts did too. so I will take this opportunity to be like all other Kmt priestesses I know and talk about it. (under 45
min I swear !!!! .... we can be a long winded bunch...)

Amun and Ra were not originally uhh together as a deity... Yes they did 'merge' and all that ....
And yes most definitely Amun (oh sorry I dont use the 'English spelling for
that, gives me a giggle and I can't possibly be serious)

Dharmakaya is a actually a good approximation for Amun as is Brahman.

I was reading this zen book this morning and the author was attempting to
explain the no 'self' and "I" ego thing and how there is no
'reincartaion' but yet there is. Ha ha !!!
He said that everyday We are born, we grow old and we die. We are not the same person tomorrow
as tomorrow does not exsist , we certainly are not the same person of
yesterday, since that doesn't exsist either. I read this and though OH
wow... some one is talking about Ra !!!!!!

Every day Ra is born as Khepri
by noonday he is Ra
at sunset he is Atum
and he then dies....
and then there is the journey through the duat.... Im sure its about the
subconscious, but I wont get into all that, not done studying it all
three diff versions...

and yes again,,,, thank you for your reply...

You are going to have an interesting time here. tongue.gif

YAY fun !!! lol Woo_Hoo.gif clapping.gif


ok now down to my initial responses....

[Brother Henry did not allege that other faiths and spiritual systems do not
have comparable teachings to Buddhism - but rather that the
presentation of these particular teachings makes Buddhism distinct. It
is mere sophistry and self-deception to, on the one hand, state that
these elements of dharma "are all taught", and then in the same breath
state that they are "explained and/or symbolized ... differently".

The teaching is either explicit and intact or it is not - where there is
difference there is difference, and it is trite to ignore the effect
that such differences have upon view.]



Its all in the presentation. One one had... like I have said. Both buddhism and kmtism
use diff 'vehicles' or 'symbolism' but thier point/lession is
essentialy the same. I feel that if you get to distracted by 'words'
insted of 'meaning' you are not quite getting the point.

On the other had that is 'seperation' kmt is Not about breaking things all
down and spererating things it more like the 'unity' of 'everything'
and by the way, you ARE everything, a nice little microcoms of the
universe. I have seen this in buddhist teaching as well.

Im not sure how a differance in a word that conveys the same message is incredably important


[All Contaminated Phenomena are of the nature of Suffering]

I kinda thought that when I posted that exerpt from Her-Bak it was a good example of this.

you also mention 'the self' *shrug.... I am ntr you are ntr everything is
ntr there is no 'self' not really, so 'the self' is an illusion we are
all sharing just reflecting our 'stuffy thing' on each other round and
round we go.




[Ptah is a creator deity.

Ra is the solar cyclic who needs defense at night in his barque against Apep.

Amun is better because of origin and role, but has no enlightened doctrine,
and is more of a king of the gods than conqueror and liberator.

There are appropriate manifestations of the kayas, and perhaps a deeper
investigation of them, and their attributes, and portrayals, according
to a legitimate course of study, would serve you well.]

yes Im working on the basic meanings here
as in
dharmakaya is the absolute
samboghakaya- expressed through stories of dieties
nirmanakaya - phinominal world,, here, now.

and at the risk of being repititions lets just say that the Mdu Ntr are
akin to Koan shall we? Its the easiest way for me to explane this.. but
then again, Im sure I have at least touched on Ntr before, if I havent
I appologise and I will do so.


Ptha, is not a cut and dry guy (yeah I know Im reffering to them as if they are 'people' and not
symbolic representitives of entire teachings but hey... I find it
amusing to do so)

Ptah is many things, yes a creator, he is one who hears all your prayers, he is a craftsman, he is a judge.... many
things, however he is still just a name, a little piece of Ntr...


RA
is LIFE he is the fire and light of life he is illumination , knowledge, power, knowledge ect ect ect
he needs protection in the duat (in some versions of the duat... esp Old
Kingdom text he is rather dead at the time, in the middle kindgom
version he is really bussy administering the kingdoms fo the duat and
punishing the wicked and rewarding the good to be bothered by defeating
Apep. In the Old kingdom text it is Set who slays apap (showing us that
we can overcome our 'base' natuer of animalistic behavoir and ignorant
fixation) In middle kingdom... its just a bunch of others including the
sons of heru... and finnally in New Kingdom its the Heliopolin ogdoad
and finnally Bast all of thes actions and retelling of the duat are
examples of teaching of blah blah blah)

(now imagine, sir, that you are teaching a class and I am a student waving my hand wildly about atempting to get your attention)

Excuse meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!??? uhmm (lol its just the visual I got)
Pardon (Im not offended or anything) but how is Amun better than.....? and
what is Amun better then? (hu? what happened, did I misread something,
it is very possible as I am dyslexic)

Amun and Brahman have about the same meaning as I previously mentioned.And no enlightened
doctorine? Now I'm incredably confused..... Im sure you arent insulting
me to say there is no enlightened doctrine in my teachings???? uh it
kinda sounds.... uhmm not uhmm well it does look insulting..... Im sure
you mean something other than that though and that I just missed your
point or something. I really dont think anyone in this comunity would
just come up here and say.... your teachings have NO enlightened
doctorine... so Im very sure I just missed some part of what you are
saying .... please explain because I just got completely lost.

Im not offended but how on earth can the meditation on the concep of the,
absolute, the ALL, the everything, the unknowable and undefineable not
assist in a greater understanding of .....blah blah blah Amun teaches
us to be too dependant on fixed 'meanings' and 'definitions' (sound
familiar) like in zen it is taught that yes all sutras are important
but you really shouldn't 'depend' on them, after all, they are not
going to get you closer to enlightenment, only you can do that.

To me, and through my practice of zazen ( I was 25 when I started Im 34
now... and this is just my limited understanding, but its not baseless)
Amun to me is very much like the state of being in zazen.

I could be wrong here, but I dont think that Upasaka was appliying the
Ntr specifically in the way you think,,,, I beleive that was just an
example...not to be taken to literally. But if you would like a literal
example:

Dharmakaya = Amun
Samboghakaya = Ra
Nirmanakaya = Imhotep (Im using him because he is an example of a Master of Secrets
and was diefied but stick in any name of any sage you want...or we
could just use my name.. or your name, or your dogs name as this state
is reffering to ... 'us' in our 'life' ne?




[Demonstrate a meaningful parallel of view.]


my meaningful parallel view is reflected in part in that short bit of
Her-Bak, there are others of course... I could try and remember to post
them for you as that is why I started this thread in the first
place..... I will try to remember ... really I will !!!!!! YAY ...
usually I dont look for paralles, I just find them but this is a
realllly good excorsise ! Im soooo excited now !!!!

(but if you actually want to find that answer yorself I sudgest you read the
Schwaller de Lubicz books or you could check out egyptian yoga by muata
ashby)

or we could look at Mdu Ntr in general... the word Ntr doesn mean ONE thing it means many thing a representitive that we are
not all for this 'physical' illusion stuff. or Heru-Set... the combined
symbol...all those myths the lower self fighting the higher self. the
higher self conquering the lower self and then get this... only by
ma'at is it settled ! You could say univeral law, that everything set
of 'rules' that leads towards 'enlightenment' or 'becomming' Ntr
(enlightement) Im actually just summing this up ... I could go on about
this for hours and hours... but lowerself. speration form all is
bad.... understanding that you ARE ntr and not a seperate entity mired
in all this physical crud is the main point btwn the Heru and Set
myths.... is that a good example????
(I have been told that my communications skills are sevearly lacking so I'm never really sure Im
actually 'making' the point I think Im making)


For right now, I will not even entertain all of the arrogant assumptions you've made in this thread, and here:


QUOTE(caritas @ Sep 10 2007, 09:31 PM)
Ptah is a creator deity.

Ra is the solar cyclic who needs defense at night in his barque against Apep.

Amun is better because of origin and role, but has no enlightened doctrine, and is more of a king of the gods than conqueror and liberator.

There are appropriate manifestations of the kayas, and perhaps a deeper
investigation of them, and their attributes, and portrayals, according
to a legitimate course of study, would serve you well.



First of all, you have just insulted the Khemetian Religion, by accusing the Khemetians of being idolaters.


You've also assumed that I have not studied the attributes of the Kayas at all.


The Khemetians understood the various deities to be impermanent, interdependent parts of a whole.

Although, even this is a simplified explanation, as their Philosophies are comparable to that of the Tantras.

The Kemetians did not see the Neteru as independent "Creator Gods" as in the exoteric Judeo-Christian view of deities, as you have just implied that they did.



QUOTE
The "without limit" may be a conceptual corruption of dharma, but since it is couched within an explicitly eternalist, dualist, conceptual
framework, there is no meaningful connection to be drawn with the
extent and precision of the buddhadharma - one may trace it back
directly to the hindu teachings, or consider it a resumption of them
through ignorance from the buddhadharma - but there is no parity. Most
of what you are calling esoteric interpretations are based upon 19th
century French characters, some a little younger, some a little bit
less French, but all of whom had the potential exposure to at least the
common misconceptions of dharma at the time. So there is no doubt that
there is "influence" or that there is "similarity" - but clarity there
is not.



More ASSUMPTIONS.



QUOTE
Certainly - although at the end of the day, if one is honest and approaches the reflection with critical requirements of consistency, validity, and so
on, there will be distinctions that render the buddhadharma unique.
*




Every Religion is unique, exoterically.

Esoterically, there is only ONE Wisdom Religion, which manifests through many exoteric forms.


But I digress for now.


If you want a good glimpse at the Esoteric interpretations of Metu Neter and Shetaut Neter, which is totally lost on Western "scholars" and
"Egyptologists"; then you might try:


Ra Un Nefer Amen

Gerald Massey

Sebai Muata Ashby

Schwaller de Lubicz





Regards
*



An idol is just a spot of sacred space for the divine enrgy to rest. Like cleaning your body, room before ritual or meditation. I actually
collect idols, I love having them around, very pretty..... I have pics
of them up in the gallery.


Lets take a look at "mystery schools"
and the importence of understanding it.


On one level we have the neyophite and the then 'beginner' levels
On face value, there are some who actually believe in the Ntr as "gods" :
actual devine beings that pay attention, listen to prayers, govorn
certain things in nature and creation and all that. I think Kemetic
Orthadoxi is like that as is Nahati Am Nutjeru (Im not 100% on that...
but they do smooosh budhist teachings in their doctorine as well)
There is a group in cali that is all about the 'worship' of Bast .... so
those would be the first two levels... neyophites. They learn the
'basic' teachings (one would hope,,, but I have noticed some sects just
kinda ingnore it) the basic teaching of 'correct' behavior.

Next two levels
Aprentice and Initiate

Oh wait,,, you mean there's more?????
yeah
Like my Temple ... we are not 'idolitors' we are all into that sacred science and alchemy.... alchemy you say???
lol
oh yeah
The transforming of the spirit from yuckienes to divine ! (this should
sound like a familiar thing to any buddhst) again the Ntr are symbolic
teachings of blah blah see other post....

Ra Um Nefrer coppies from Schwaller de Lubicz, so be careful w/that.... he doesnt even site
Schwaller de Lubicz's books. And I will also warn you that he has lots
of recial bias hanging out in that book. As for his tendancy to copy
Schwaller de Lubicz.... sometimes its word for word out of Esoterism
and Symbol and then Alternate w/Symbol and the Symbolic.

needless to say I dont sudgest his obviously plageristic works anymore. Not
because after sifting through the racial bias he doesnt have anything
worthwhile to say but the mear act of doing that, esp for the kind of
book its supposed to be is a gross violoation of the ethics he claims
to have... that kind of thing doesnt sit well with me. But then again,
neither does racial bias no matter how much he attempts to rationalise
its validiaty. Both Schwaller de Lubicz and Muata Ashy present much the
same concepts with out resourting to such a thing.

also you can try reading Rosemary Clark and Chritian Jacq

My first teacher started off with the works of Muata Ashby. he used to come and lecture here !!!!!

kmt view of ntr is all encompassing
there is God/ esistance/the universe (they are not seperate)
Ntr are the teachings that lead us to enlightenment of the nautre of our/god's/universe's exsistance

I will not even entertain all of the arrogant assumptions

I will only say once, that trying to read minds over the internet will not work well. biggrin.gif
One or the other may be arrogant - but conversation does not work like this.

QUOTE
QUOTE(caritas @ Sep 10 2007, 09:31 PM)
Ptah is a creator deity.

Ra is the solar cyclic who needs defense at night in his barque against Apep.

Amun is better because of origin and role, but has no enlightened doctrine, and is more of a king of the gods than conqueror and liberator.

There are appropriate manifestations of the kayas, and perhaps a deeper investigation of them, and their attributes, and portrayals, according to a legitimate course of study, would serve you well.

First of all, you have just insulted the Khemetian Religion, by accusing the Khemetians of being idolaters.

Anyone without emptiness view is some kind of idolater.
How do you intend to use the word.

QUOTE
You've also assumed that I have not studied the attributes of the Kayas at all.

"deeper investigation" (quoted above) implies a precedent of shallower investigation, dear heart.

QUOTE
The Khemetians understood the various deities to be impermanent, interdependent parts of a whole. Although, even this is a simplified
explanation, as their Philosophies are comparable to that of the
Tantras.

The people of the black earth were not so different from any farmers, warriors, and priests throughout history. In order to make your supposition tenable,
it is not necessary to demonstrate parallelism of the psychosocial
roles of specific ntr.w (the functions are inherent to mind
after all; that is not a point under contention, please remember this),
but it is necessary to provide tangible examples of applications of emptiness view
native to the original practices, which would constitute a substantive
foundation for comparison with actual buddhist mantrayana philosophy.
Otherwise I would have to ask you to provide directly a philosophical
text that compares favourably (not simply someone's opinion that there
is such a favourable comparison in existence) and this would be
difficult since such texts would have been written using md.w-ntr,
and also since higher philosophy relies upon idiosyncratic and
purposeful misuses of conventional language (even when written in
special scripts).

QUOTE
Every Religion is unique, exoterically.

Esoterically, there is only ONE Wisdom Religion, which manifests through many exoteric forms.
*


Indeed, and that religion is buddhism.
Buddhism - the pursuit of awakening, beginning with methods of taming mind.

QUOTE(Upasaka @ Sep 12 2007, 06:57 PM)
One last thing here.
I would agree that Buddhism teaches about the Nature of Reality and existence more openly and unveiled than other Religions.
*


The question, however, is not merely 'which faith is more open and unveiled than other faiths', but rather, 'what is the source of what we are
calling esoteric' - and is it legitimate to impose the definitions of
that source onto culturally distinct systems of knowledge, and
structures of faith, which do not evince equivalent foundations.
*





since ntr is a teaching
and the dharma is a teaching
do you worship the teachings?

(oh I know you don't seriously)

again an Idol is a thing that represents sometihng. So if I have the buddha (and I do) on my desk its a really nice visual reminder isnt it...its
also 'sacred' as the teachings of the buddha are 'sacred' that little
piece of thing is his symbolic representation of him. so in itself is
my little spot where I have my 'respect' for the buddha darma. Its a
piece of thing that has this sacred space.
Its all energetic really, but lets not get into that, as even the brain has electric impulses
zinging through it, you give off energy /heat by mearly exsisting....
is 'your' space 'sacred' or 'clouded' ?

I wonder if people really thing that I 'worship' idols LOL seriously that is NOT the
perspose of an idol... if you are into that kind of thing an idol is
the piece of sacred space where the divin hangs out. still not
worshiping the idol.....

Amun is empyt... he is nothing, he is everything, he is the undefinable.... ect ect ect blah blah


Mdu Ntr.... ah yes
the symbol
used in order not to confine the mind
you have symbols to...you use words in your sutras and your teachings....
some of that comes from other peoples interpritations (big can o worms
there)
but in order to answer you I would have to quote The Temple in man to much (R.A. Schwaller de Lubicz) so it would probably save my
arthritis for you to read it... The Mdu Ntr themselves are our
teachings... and yeah that inclueds the text itself to....


diff vehicle.... same place


the persuit of awakending , beginning w/methods of taming the mind is
reflected in the studdy of Ma'at and the wisdome text governing proper
thought/action/ behavior.

I find it incredably entertaining that there is all this discussion about things that are 'seperate' when this
thread is supposed to cover. that which is consistant and parallell esp
since as far as I know, no one else here is an aprentice shemsu... dont
get me wrong you have valid points in arguing w/eachother... but uhm
lol yeah.... I am very happy w/your comments when it pertains to things
Im actually atempting to point out. but Im not sure why there is
arguing amongst yourselves about a tradition that 'you' are not
studdying??? heehee

now why, I wonder is this happening? Is it because we as 'ego' things believing 'our' way is the right an only way
toward enlightement cand deal w/the idea that there is a differant way
to the same place because the languages/words and vehicles differ?

or is it because as being in this incarnation and being ensnared by this
ego we truely believe we are seperate because that is the way all
'appears' as if you and I are completely seperate and I am seperate and
just dangling here in the univers and not a ctualy a part /piece or am
the univers
My friends. I started this thread for discusson of 'consistancies' things that are 'simalar' because I find that a
beautiiful thing\
this going back and forth on the things that which segrigate us are illusions of a clouded mind and are useless... Im sure
some one can have a more productive time meditating than to come to
this bord w/the 'verbal' crow bar and try to seperate eachother more
insted of

well Im sure you get the point
Im not seeing the point in descussing the differances when my point
was for the consistancies
We are all Ntr.

oh I think the foundation my be diff, but the destination reamains the same.


grouphug.gif hi.gif peace.gif

and more importatntly

namaste.gif

my hindu friend said to me that namaste means I bow the devinity in you


Bhagavad Gita
A Walkthrough For Westerners
Jack Hawley
copyrite 2001

Devotion and Desire
The Answer is not to try to restrain your nature but to progressively
improve your nature. Examine this thing called 'nature' more closely.
One's own senses are major stumbling blocks to spiritual attainment.
Senses derive their power from the many likes and dislikes imprinted in
the mind (by family, by culture, and by one's actions in this and
previous lives.) This deeply embedded, largely unconscious system of
likes and dislikes is what gives rise to one's thoughts, deisres, and
tendencies. This mental pattern is in lage part what is meant by one's
'nature'.

Arjuna, the best thing to do with these thoughts and deisres is to transmute them into a devotional attitude, a desire for
God. When this attitude takes hold, the system of likes and dislikes
melts away, which causes the fierce power of the senses to gradually
dry up. Desires are enemies when directed outward, but allies when
pointed inward, toward divinity.


AHHHHHH !!!!! another good example of dropping away of desire which...

The BhagavadGita
A walkthrough for Westerners
Jack Hawley copyrite 2001

when people pull back from worldly pleasures thier knowledge of the
Divine grows, and this knowing causes the yearning for pleasure to
gradually fade away. ... Much of one's spiritual discapline must there
for focus on taming wayward sense and being ever vigalant against the
treacherousness of the senses. .... The Illuminated ones subdue thier
sense and hold them in check by keeping thier minds ever intent on
achieving the overarching goal of union with God. They get in the habit
of substituting divine thoughts for attractions of the senses.